Dave Van Sickle

• From Iowa, did track to stay in shape for football
• DII football and track athlete
• Moved to Arizona in 1982 to see how fast could run post-college
• Started coaching in 1983
• Started middle distance coaching in high school then local community college needed a coach and took over their cross country program, not knowing how to score a cross country meet
• After 3-4 years there moved around the country for a few years 
• in 1990, at age of 30, got a full-time job a Xavier High School in Phoenix and been there since
• Sponge for learning and sat with Arthur Lydiard for 3 hours

Stephanie  Bruce

• Ran for Dave and Xavier in high school 1998-2002
• She came on as an unfocused freshman
• Eating habits were horrible
• Was stuck at 5:28 for a few years before breaking through as a senior with 4:54 in just a few weeks
• When asked how that happened, she thought she was running hard, now knew what running hard was
• Doing the basics, but with super motivation and you can have breakthroughs
• Things were kept simple

Training

• Early in career SebCo was a big influence and trained like him with circuits and low miles
• Mid-distance kids had success but the long distance was not having the success
• Later in 80's started learning more about aerobic component
• First-year Xavier only 5 girls and only 5 could run 3 miles
• Woke me up to the importance of being an aerobic distance coach
• Late 90's saw an advertisement for Jack Daniels looking for research subjects and volunteered
• Learned energy systems from Jack and touching on all of them in every phase
• Had to slow the kids down, they were running too hard

Coaching Girls

• Girls are easier, generally listen better and loyal and will give it everything they have
• Girls tougher
• Girls will go through a year where they don't get better
• When they become a woman it gets harder for them and they need to get through it
• Prepare them for it

What does season look like?

• Start in May 1-2 weeks off after track State meet
• Long progression start 25 minutes for the first two weeks and then add minutes
• Start hill sprints early
• Tempo runs start at 10 minutes
• If vacation still responsible to run and communicate what they did
• End of summer camp

Week

• Monday do about 5 miles progression runs, then hill sprints with long recovery to hit hard
  • Will work up to 16-20 hills with walk down, 30-second hill
  • Total for day around 8 miles
• Tuesday we get up to 60-minutes recovery
• Wednesday steady over rolling hills up to 75-minutes probably 9 miles
• Thursday hard effort day 5xmile 5-6 seconds slower than race pace 400 recovery or something like fast mile, tempo, end 400s
• Friday OYO
• Saturday long run up to 100 minutes with tempo work, 10 sets of 10 minutes with last two minutes of each segment tempo

Dave Frank Central Catholic Introduction

• Grew up in Oregon, won some state titles in high school
• Ran at Stanford in early 80's
• Senior year made Olympic Trials in Steeple
• Made it again in 88 and in the marathon in 92
• 11 years coaches at St Francis in California
• Central Catholic was nothing to speak of when arrived
• Alberto Salazar hired same year and Galen Rupp was a Freshman
• 19 years now at Central Catholic

You had a lot of success as a runner, why did you end up coaching high school?

• Stanford coaches got us interested in coaching
• There was a need for an assistant cross country coach at the school I was working
• When moved to Central Catholic thought would be the head coach, but they hired Alberto
• Enjoyed helping kids get better

How did your training differ between California and Oregon?

• In California, as an assistant just working on making JV kids Varsity
• In Oregon worked closer with Alberto on training

What was the team like when you arrived at Central Catholic and how has that changed, and what impact did Galen being there have on it?

• Was 13 boys and a few less girls
• School is about 850-900
• We should be a middle division school by size but compete up
• Kids and parents at the school are really involved which helps build numbers
• Grew steadily over the years, no sure Galen had an impact
• Strong teams may have scared kids off who thought they would never be good enough
• Up to 50 boys and 35 girls, only coach boys program

You had a unique situation getting to work with Alberto Salazar, what were those years like and how was he with the kids?

• Rumor is Alberto came here because Galen was here and he coached him as a youth, not true
• Galen was a kid in my math class, his mother ran so I convinced them to come out
• Galen was a soccer kid and a soccer fan first
• Alberto worked out a deal with soccer coach that he could run with us a few times
• Was obvious he had some talent
• Alberto was dedicated to kids if a kid was hurt he would throw an exercise bike in the back of his car and drive it to the kid's house
• Was there every day and cared for the kids
• Had kids excited to improve and Alberto was good with them
• Alberto stayed one more season after Galen left

When the report came out on Oregon Project how did that impact the team?

• For a few years after he left talked to Alberto on a regular basis
• Galen still stops by to talk to our kids before State and go for a run with our kids
• Alberto would always try to find any way he could to help our kids get better
• Would push the envelope, but always staying within rules
• If ever a question he always asked about the rules to make sure he stayed legal

You have had a lot of success since 2003 being first or second at State every year but one

• Culture was hard to build at the beginning
• 3-4 years started having a lot of success and kids bought into the culture
• Easier to keep it going than get it started

What did you do to get that buy-in in the early years?

• We had a goal early on to be successful and win a state title
• When they are excited we ask more of them

What is your summer program?

• We now meet 4 nights a week in the summer at different locations
• M/Th are a moderate effort with strides
• T/F uptempo
• Sunday's top kids get together for a long run on trails
• Open it up to anyone even other schools
• When more good kids, more people at your pace to run with

What does early season training look like?

• First meet right before Labor Day and State early November
• When kids are confident they will run well
• Summer and early fall is to build confidence
• 5 weeks in the middle of the season we work really hard
• Last three weeks is confidence again
• Mid Sept going hard, 5k/3k work
• Always touching speed some with strides, 200s, 150 accelerations
• 1k work on trails and 400s

Workout examples

• Most workouts are made up so not doing them more than once
• Taylor workout for what right for them that day
• 2 sets of 4, 8xK where each 4 is progression. A longer break between sets, shorter rest as go in set
• A lot of progression runs because builds confidence. 
• 7xK, first one hard like a start of a race, then race pace or slightly slower for 5, then finish last hard
• If run top kids on Wednesday meet will make it the hardest day of the week so run 3 miles LT, 10 minutes then race at LT for another three miles
• Or 6-8x400 at 3k pace after the meet
• 3x 1000, 800, 600, 400
• Will change workout on fly if see people struggling 
• Remind them running is hard
• When we want them to feel good will often do some sort of 400 workout 

As we get to end, the last week, what does the last session look like?

• We have motto always be closing
• Pick up lots of spots in the last mile
• End of workout is the most important part, want to finish well
• Last week fairly hard Saturday, but not much volume, Sun med-long run so maybe 9-10 miles, Monday 2 sets of 4x200 progression with 30-second jog  36, 35, 34, 33, put on racing flats and run a little faster for next set, Tuesday moderate run at 45-50 minutes, Wednesday a couple 800s slower than race pace then 3 300s, Thurs 35-40 minute run, Friday jog the course, Saturday race

You have built a program from nothing and consistent year after year, so what advice do you have for a young coach who may be taking over a program looking to build something out of it?

• Figure out what you believe in
• Stand up for what you believe
• Minor parts change all the time, philosophy or demands of kids never changes
• Don't expect kids to immediately get it, takes time
• Be incremental in expectations every year
• Use your parents and keep them involved
• Learn from the best

What is that team philosophy?

• Everything is your choice, take responsibility
• To be good at running need to make hard choices
• Being good is hard sometimes have to make tough choices that friends won't understand

Introduction to Sal Gonzalez Rio Ranch High in New Mexico

• Started running in high school to stay in shape for basketball
• Had more luck and was only 5' 7" so ended up running in college

School demographics

• 2400 students in school
• One of higher academic achieving schools in the state
• 80 kids this year 30 girls and 50 boys
• First year there was 2008
• The second year the school split, was 4000 kids the first year
• The first year with the bigger population was 25 boys and 20 girls
• When took over with new program lost kids and had to rebuild

What was your previous school like?

• 50 kids
• Cultural changes
• Had to adjust to geography changes to change training
• Kids at Rio Rancho have more homework and push themselves more academically
• Kids were stronger at prior school had to do more strength work here at Rio Rancho

When you took over the school split and things changed, did you try to keep the traditions of Rio Ranch like they were before you got there or did things change?

• Rio Rancho was a bigger school that I was at, but did not make the podium nearly as often as we were. Our boys did not make the podium in 2008 when I arrived, but we have every year but one since then
• We had to change things up to get different results
• Team is a reflection of coaches attitude
• Work ethic had to change, implemented new things
• Some things did well at Pecos could not get them to work well at Rio Rancho

You talked about the injury rate is different at Rio Ranch, can you talk more about that and what you have had to do?

• Not super high miles, boys 50-55, but that was more than what they were doing
• Over a long 4 year period build them up, but we were getting injuries like IT Band
• Had a couple stress fractures
• Suburban kids I was with now just were not doing as much when they were kids outside so not as strong
• Added in strength work as cut down on injuries
• We do Jay Johnson strength work

How much time do you spend on strength and how long is your practice?

• 50 minute class in AM 30 minutes of strength ancillary work with 1-3 miles easy
• Afternoon another 30 minutes 

What is the thinking of doing speed ladder and strides and hurdles before the run?

• We do both, before and after
• Access speed when fresh not depleted 

What kids will you work with for dual athlete kids in the same season?

• Pecos had to with a small school
• 50/50 practice and 50/50 competitions

What does the summer look like?

• 2 weeks off after XC and 2 weeks after track
• Slowly get back into running by 4th week at full mileage 
• 1st Monday of June will meet for first time every other day
• July will meet M-F
• Touch all speeds at all times from week 1
• Get to max milage by end of June

What is max mileage? 

• Freshman with experience 35 miles, maybe 40 by mid-season
• Senior lots of weeks at 60
• Very individualized depends on the kid

How about boys vs Girls

• A lot of people do minutes but we do miles
• Top end senior girl will be 45 miles about same minutes as boys
• Girls try to get from 25 to 45 miles

You talked about touching on energy systems, how does the structure change going into September and the season?

• We take a lot from Dr. Jeff Messer
• Long run, race and one other quality day in
• 21-day cycle In week 1 short intervals, week 2 long intervals, week 3 tempo workout 
• Tempos vary a lot 

On long runs how do you structure the 'spice' and monitor

• Several coaches so have someone with each group
• Often out and back or big loops 

How often do you race

• Top varsity 2 weeks on and 1 week off 
• Occasionally may have 3 in a row
• District, State, Nike Regional are 3 weeks in a row

When you do race what does your week look like

• Long runs can change with breaks
• Interval/tempo day do no change
• Wednesday Tempo day
• Thursday aerobic day
• Friday premeet aerobic day
• Saturday Invitational

Do your three-week cycles build upon each other so the last cycle is the biggest one?

• Short interval days speed stays about the same but rest gets shorter as season goes on
• Long intervals rest stays same but pace gets faster

Is State always the focus and how do you get ready for it the last two weeks?

• More we talk about it the more stressful it becomes
• Remember, they are kids
• For training, yes always State
• Last big Vo2 workout is 10 days before State
• Last really long run is the Saturday before that
• Week of State tempo and snappy 200s 

Dean Ouellette
Ben Rosario
Sal Gonzalez

Introduction to Coach Timo Mostert

• Great up in Illinois and ran at BYU
• 1998 moved to American Fork
• 8 State Championships over last 9 years
• 8 NXN trips with an average place 5th and lowest 8th,
• 2nd place 3 times in the last six years

School demographics

• 2400 students in 3 grades
• In our school district 3 other schools who have made it to Nike Cross
• Team averages 30 boys, 40 this year is the largest ever

When did you decide you wanted to coach?

• Very early had great coaches
• After the freshman year in college got into education with hopes of being a coach

What do you want to talk about in this podcast, what is important to building a program?

• Did coaching clinics the last few years
• How we changed from a good program to national contender
• Going back to basics (Lydiard)
• Develop aerobic engine

How do we develop a good aerobic engine?

• Good base in summer
• Need to work on all phases of training all the time, just different emphasis
• Early in base still doing stride laps
• Aerobic speed can be developed and can still have a kick

You have a first-year kid where do you start at and develop the newbie

• June may start out 4 miles a day and build up no more than 10% a week
• Saturday run do one more mile than the longest run of the week
• By August can do 10 miles
• Still hold back daily miles

Do you give them specific paces or do you run by feel for beginners?

• Do what you can early
• Friday's do mountain runs in summer to get them in nature

What 2 track workouts do you during the summer?

• The week before the first race will do 16x400 start 3200 pace and get faster 2:30 rest
• Rest walk around, jog around, clear legs
• Newer kids do less than 16
• Build aerobic engine and less anaerobic work
• Get them to feel the pace and after 3-mile time trial they get paces to hit

You focus on taking out some of those faster 400 workouts and doing more aerobic. Your goal is to increase the long run

• Varsity kids coming out of track will pick back up quickly where they were
• Our goal for veterans are 750 miles from memorial day to labor day with top end about 60
• Capillary runs are 70-90 minutes for a long run develop more capillaries into the tissue
• It is the oxygen transportation system
• Longest run used to be 10 miles but were not getting to 70+ minutes

What else are the veterans doing for a harder workout?

• Grinder 3 miles to a mountain, 1.3 miles up 500 feet in altitude
• Awards for under 9 minutes
• July after camp start incorporating a longer repeat workout like 4x1200 or 3xmile
• Lydiard called time trials, we call power runs, AT runs not a real time trial in August

For your veterans are you getting more than the one run over an hour?

• 6-8 miles is a typical day

Do you assign paces on easy and recovery days?

• Varsity boys know we are trying to hit aerobic threshold pace
• Varsity boys average 6-6:15 per mile, recovery 8minutes per mile

Doubles?

• Doubles all year long
• Double at recovery run pace
• Morning recovery run helps them get ready for the run later in the day

How much do you talk about things outside of running like sleep and nutrition?

• Summer camp we have classes
• We talk about our philosophy and what is expected
• Day before a meet we will talk again about preparing

On a race day, what does your race day prep look like?

• We will do a morning run and then we will go through the visualization
• When we get to meet have boy in charge of warmups and cooldowns in each race
• 1-mile warmup, do pullouts (working on perfect form), high knees
• After a race 2 mile cool down and team stretch

Good mix of old school and new school. What do you do about form?

• Form with pullouts
• Run a lot of hills
• Try to land midfoot
• Heel strikers are usually hips tilted forward and work on that and strong core

A week in mid-September

• Race Friday
• Monday 3x1mile with 5:00 rest negative split it start 3-mile race pace and negative
• 7 miles and strides on Tuesday
• Wednesday 2 mile warm up and 2-mile power AT run with 2 miles cooldown
• Thursday 4.5 miles of jogging
• Friday race
• Saturday ran 6 miles and easy
• Plus 30 minutes every morning
• Total 60 miles

What is your hardest session and when does it fall?

• 16x400 slight negative splits (12x400 for newer kids)
• Tough fartlek on mile loop 3 miles of :30/:30 hard easy

You are doing what most coaches are doing, but you have all this success, what do you think you are doing differently?

• Coaches do too many intervals too fast with too little rest
• We always preach negative splits even on steady runs out and back
• Practice over and over again negative splits so second nature in race

To get the job done at a national level there has to be a race strategy, how do you deal with that?

• You race how you train
• NXN not a speed course
• Have to have confidence you will work up when everyone else goes fast
• Even-keeled first mile, know where you can pass and make moves
• Teach them to run hills

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Colin Altevogt, the boys XC coach at Carmel High in Indiana. Colin has been coaching in Indiana for the past 11 years, the last six years as a cross country coach at Carmel. The team has captured four state championships and two state runner-up titles with two qualifications for Nike Cross Nationals (2014 and 2017), including a tenth-place finish in 2017.

Background

• Ran in high school and college
• Taught at Avon right out of college
• 2011-2013 moved to Carmel as an assistant
• 2012 we trained training
• 2014 became head coach
• In the 6 years, we have 4 state titles and 2 runner-ups

Why did you get into high school coaching

• Always wanted to be a teacher and loved track
• When I was in college did volunteer coaching
• Always wanted to be a coach since he was in early teens

Speak to cross country and the traditions in the mid-west

• Our winters are fairly mild with just a few exceptions
• Summer we meet in the mornings so good running conditions

Summer Program

• June 2nd was State track meet
• June 4th was first practice for XC for those who did not run State
• We call threshold runs PPM's we don't give them a set pace
• Paces are based off hard threshold workouts we do once a week over summer

What is PPM

• Pace Per Mile
• Big difference with us is threshold workout
• They run it 'all-out' at a pace they can handle well
• We keep it simple instead of giving paces
• Need to learn how to run hard

Example 15:30 5k guy runs 5:00/mi what is this PPM workout for him?

• Varies a little by runner 800 guy may not be as fast as 3200 guy
• On a good day 5:20-5:30 for 8 miles

Workout structure

• Pace per mile is what they do is calculated after the workout
• The structure is to do best you can
• Senior boys maybe junior are doing 8 miles
• The freshman does maybe 2 miles hard and builds up to 5
• We had 2 boys this year build up to 9
• Week 1 may do 6 at 5:40 pace, then next week 7 at 5:45 pace then the next week maybe 7 again at 5:40
• They figure it out the hard way how to do these
• Ok with them going out too fast and adapt over time
• Paavo training technique 

Thresholds are an important part of your program, once in the season can you give us a weekly schedule?

• First meet right around Labor Day
• Up until first meet Long Run Monday, T/W milage, Th PPM, F milage, Sat building up volume
• July on Tuesday we may do short PPM in the middle maybe 2 miles for veterans
• Will work in repeat miles in August
• Once in season 400 intervals are CI, always the same pace for the season.
  • Low set and high set
  • 2-3 cycles.
  • Low set 4 less than high set
  • High set 1/2 distance of PPM so 8-mile PPM is 16x400 w/ recovery 3:00 jog rest to start
    • Find recovery loop and loop time will come down over the season on loop
  • Monday high set, Thursday low set is what do before big meet in season
  • 400 pace 6-8:00/mi is about 1:00/mi faster than that
  • 5:30 is 70second 400 
• On big race weeks go to the 2 CI and no PPM that week
• Once get to tournament week go from 1/4 to 1/3 of a mile so same pace for about an extra 25 seconds

Do you get requests for more variety?

• Not really
• They buy in
• Sometimes will do repeat miles or 2k's
• Report their times for 400s as 0, +2 or -1 not as 79 seconds

Racing during season

• Will run mileage on race day so can be a long run day
• Will sit the top 7 rotating at different points
• Races are already all out
• Racing is part of training

Carmel team Culture

• When season over and only 12 left for tournament roster encourages people to keep training
• Friday night before regional track time trial for those not running regionals
• 800 one week, 3200 next week, 1600 following week
• 2/3 stick around for that
• Not who wants it most, it is who is most prepared
• Become best-prepared team we can be
• Team supports each other, will take anyone still training to sectional, regional and state
• Let kids know they are wanted all the time
• Team grew 50%, but those taking it seriously grew 200%

Coach closes talking about the outlook of State and NXN

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Ben Rosario
Dean Ouellette